DXCC WAZ WAS & FT8 mode ?

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oz7c
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Tilmeldt: søn feb 04, 2018 2:30

DXCC WAZ WAS & FT8 mode ?

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Hej
Det ser ud til at der er en diskution omkring "FT8 mode" skal deletes ?
På topband reflectoren !

se bare dette indlæg:

ENOUGH!!

TU es 73 de Lee KX4TT
On Wednesday, 10 March 2021, 06:49:23 pm GMT+1, Martin Kratoska <[email protected]> wrote:

First - before any comment: I thoroughly tested FT8. Trying to "be on"
since the very first steps of FT8. Made some ~3000 QSO with 150
countries DXCC. Studied the protocol into depth to understand what does
the tricks to resolve very weak signal. Using the best available sound
card - the Asus Xonar U7 with its famous Burr-Brown AD and DA
converters. All works in Linux, no gimmicks here. Also compiled the
sources by myself, the deb packages are made for Ubuntu but my Debian 10
does not like them. No problem, I am very experienced Linux user, also
former computer-pro. That's testing bench here.

Without separation of the meat from the bones: the software is an
excellent example how should be it done! It is a real masterpiece, hat
off to the authors team!

Anyway, the FT8 main principle is "confirmation of expectable". This
overcomes the unnecessary redundancy, but at the cost that no QSO except
the "precooked" one is possible. You should note that the first versions
of WSJT had problems with unusual calls, I was unable to air my special
call OL100R.

The cost paid for "weak signal" functionality is simply too high. The
operator can't do anything other than clicking to station wanted to QSO.
There is some split needed but the choice of split "deviation" is all
what the op can do. Thus, a QSO can be never a fully featured chat, in
contrary to RTTY, PSK31 or others where is possible to say hello.

All such features are highly attractive to the new operators who does
not know the code, who never learned the adventures with weak SSB
signals. These guys are not comparable with us, they are different from
us, they are NOT HAMS, they are just radio users. I don't care if
someone finds my words offensive. Everybody can learn the code (yes,
there are some 7% who can't, due to health reasons), who can't learn the
code is probably able to speak so he can operate SSB. The main reason to
become "FT8 only" is the LAZINESS which I find unacceptable. Period.

I am ham because it's hard, not because it's easy. See the True Blue DX
club and its motto (https://www.tbdxc.net/). I am founder member, #4.
Again, I am NOT biased against any mode. Do you like it? Do it! Do you
count this as old dog's new trick? Well, do it, go ahead! (BTW there are
more old dogs, some of them are happy to do old tricks in the same way
as they did 50 years ago. As Vern Kaspar, W9FAM did! They still going
strong, some of them unfortunately only in my mind, in my memories)...
But I never accept/take part in a bicycle race where some participants
using motor bikes. Now you know why I dislike FT8. My attitude to this
mode is NEUTRAL, I HATE "FT8 only" radio users promoting themselves as
hams (radio amateurs).

73,
Martin, OK1RR
https://www.qrz.com/db/OK1RR


Dne 10. 03. 21 v 17:11 Glenn Wyant napsal(a):
> Sorry to offend you Doug....and Martin
> However when another ham tries to tell me what I should or should not
> Operate, well I take offense.
> In this case Martin does not like FT8
> Thats fine, however when he starts saying it should not count for dxcc waz was etc
> For dxcc was waz etc , which would affect myself a lot of other hams,
> I find it offensive that he would agree to remove those awards from me.
>
> Martin came on the reflector and basically degraded all those
> who use ft8. I found it offensive and told him his summary
> of our operating is not needed there. I did not ask that he be
> Banished, as was his claim.
>
> I believe a hams personal operating preference is his option.
> We don’t need to judge others based on our own personal beliefs.
>
> If I have offended anyone here , I apoligize.
>
> Glenn
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Doug Renwick
> Sent: March 10, 2021 9:40 AM
> To: 'Glenn Wyant'; [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: *****SPAM***** Re: Topband: CQ Zones
>
> And Tree continues to let a$$holes like VA3DX to post here. I should look at
> changing my callsign to show no similarity to Glenn's.
>
> Doug/VA5DX
>
> Free Climbing - The ultimate test of strength and technique.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+ve5ra=[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Glenn Wyant
> Sent: March-09-21 7:46 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: *****SPAM***** Re: Topband: CQ Zones
>
> And you decide whether any of us deserve to follow our own preferences!
> We don't need you as a dumb ass wanna be leader.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 9, 2021, at 18:25, Martin Kratoska <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Glenn (VA3DX),
>>
>> BRAVO, I applaud!
>>
>> So you claim the privilege to decide who should leave and who is allowed
> to stay. And you will do it for ALL members of the list. You are a brilliant
> character. The life with you must be a marvel.
>> Stay safe, 73
>> Martin, OK1RR
>

73 Boye
oz7c
Indlæg: 1570
Tilmeldt: søn feb 04, 2018 2:30

Re: DXCC WAZ WAS & FT8 mode ?

Indlæg af oz7c »

Hej

Hi folks

Been reading all sayings about FT8/FT4-business
.
MYSELF I will NEVER ever use FT4 or FT 8. Been active Ham-operator since
1961. I am now 75 years old,and still active,and dx-expeditioner.

I say, this PC to PC business kills the challenge of our hobby.
I agree 100% with OK1RR and OK1TN and SP2XF writing.AND others.

Of course, IF you like FT 4/FT 8 ,its up to you to use it.
If I do NOT like it, it must be acceptable for me to tell other Hams ,
I feel I do NOT like it. And I will NEVER use it.

In Sweden ,I know ,,,a LOT of Hams ( old-timers mainly ,but also new Hams) ,
that has stopped Ham-radio and sold all their equipment because of this PC to PC play game.

WHY. Well, they have always been chasing dx, by looking for hours ,
and with their own ears finally heard the weak dx, and they called the dx
on CW/SSB/RY using their challenge and equipment built during many many
years. And when not looking for expeditions, they have made nice chat on CW/SSB/RY with other Hams world-wide, talking and making social connection.Never mind if they have a big or smaller station.

How can we say its Ham-radio, when a dx-operator is using FT8/FT 4
and making so called QSO:s on two or even more ( up to 3 bands ) at
the same time. YES, its technically super, BUT is this what we want ???

I think ARRL/dxcc should make a separate class for this FT 8/FT 4
business. NOT accept it for BAND/DXCC. It is NOT fair to let it compete
with CW/SSB/RY for BAND/DXCC.

Finally ,last thing,why I do NOT like it. Before a dx-expedition were on 6 or 160 meters during ALL expedition.NOW they share it with FT8/FT 4 and
we have less time to do a real QSO. AND for no expedition, I prefer to
make a QSO and exchange information,and try to learn about the other person I work. Not just to click on a yellow line.
I will NEVER send a DONATION for a FT8 -expedition.

Last outside this FT 8-business. I also must say, that this remote-story
is under NO control. YES, of course ,you can build a station less
than
150 kilometers or so from your home.PERFECT. BUT build a station in
Haiti and sit and operate it from NYC, THATS really killing the pleasure
to work a new one.

Thanks for letting me give my feelings. I will NOT react on any replies.

From MAY until AUGUST I will be around 50098 CW ( ONLY ) looking
for dx I can hear in my ears. Last season I worked 7 stations in California
( info for K9YC ).So IF there had been no FT8-business, I am sure I had
worked at least 20.One day there was a 4 hours opening to all over USA ,east to west, and I worked 25 stations in 4 hours. IF it had been before all of
these Hams were on FT8 ,I had worked 100……...

Kind regards

SM6CVX ( Since 1961 ) Hans
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

73 Boye
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